'73 Ford Gran Torino Late Model

[Maineboy]

Brian,

       Thanks for all the info on this great build. You have shown an amazing amount of skill at body and fender work in a very small scale. I had a hard enough time trying to patch up my old F-150 (can't imagine who would buy a new one today) and can't imagine the tedious work it took on this project.

      You brought up an interesting point about the Muncie tranny behind the big block Ford. I never saw that particular hookup. The "Rock Crusher" is a well known drag racing piece but the top loader Ford was a pretty good unit too. Just searched a bit to see who might make such a thing and saw that Speedy Bill Smith's operation offers one for the small block Ford that will take most any 4 spd so what you did  is surely possible.

      Had a friend who bought a 64 Galaxie 500 XL hardtop, brand new. Had the 427 with 2 4 bbl carbs and Ford 4 spd. First one I ever saw and went gaga over it of course. It was bright red and a nice side effect of all of that was that there was not a young lady in America who would have said "No" if he asked her out. A nice thing at that stage of our lives. He blew the rear end twice but the transmission survived until he got tired of spending money on busted parts.

     Always a delight to see the different stages of your work.

MB

[Brian Conn]

Brian,
       Thanks for all the info on this great build. You have shown an amazing amount of skill at body and fender work in a very small scale..........can't imagine the tedious work it took on this project.

...No, I should be thanking you for noticing what all has been done to this point.  My wife can't understand why I am always looking at pictures of local stock cars while in the hobby room....I've tried to explain that my builds tend to be a conglomeration of several cars and that I need to make sure that I am headed in the right direction with a build.  Case in point..... I'm afraid that I came a bit too close to over engineering the ductwork and fan shroud on  this build with  a car that would have run on a dirt track in the mid 70's.     

I had a hard enough time trying to patch up my old F-150 (can't imagine who would buy a new one today)

ME...got one early last year when the dollar was still worth something and there still was trucks for sale on the lot....4X4 supercrew cab, love it!!

      You brought up an interesting point about the Muncie tranny behind the big block Ford. I never saw that particular hookup. The "Rock Crusher" is a well known drag racing piece but the top loader Ford was a pretty good unit too. Just searched a bit to see who might make such a thing and saw that Speedy Bill Smith's operation offers one for the small block Ford that will take most any 4 spd so what you did  is surely possible.

  I'm going off of what I was told and what I seen when I was young and impressionable...here's what I can still recall being so much older now.
  There was something about 3rd and 4th gear, particularly when shifting down into 3rd setting up for a turn  (Sedalia, Missouri's 1 mile dirt track back in the day and the fairgrounds BIG 1/2 mile track here in Topeka as examples) and then up shifting on the back shute and front straight that made the Muncie more desirable than the Top Loader for some reason which escapes me at the moment.....gear synchronization perhaps??? final gear drive???   Also, the ability to run a Muncie in 3rd on the 1/4 mile and smaller bull rings with a small block. This was pre early 80's

  As far as the bell housing goes, I have seen a Ford bellhouse that had the holes for the Top Loader filled and re drilled for a Muncie (local machine shop) and a manufactured bell housing from a company that was big in the 70's ...saw their stickers everywhere and on everything..... that has since gone out of business.  I can still see the sticker but can't for the life of me member who it was....I do recall, however, them having a big block and small block to Muncie bell house for the Fords     


     

   

[Maineboy]

       I dont have any experience with race cars on a mile track or bigger. Most of our guys ran 3 spds and ran them in second gear all the time. I can see on a bigger track you could get more speed on the straights and use the downshift into the corners. I know the NASCAR guys all used 4 spds and some of those old tracks were quite small.

      I am more familiar with the Muncie in drag racing applications. We all knew that the Muncie was the strongest and that there were a lot of gear sets available. We were all stick shift guys in the mid 1960's and called automatic transmissions "slush buckets" or "girl cars". It took me some time to learn that Dick Landy, the Ram Chargers and others, were beating the stick shift guys all to pieces with 3 spd automatics. 

     Speedway Motors has long been catering to the circle track guys as Bill himself was one of them. They may well have had bellhousings and stuff to stick the Muncie behind a big block Ford.

     Life is always a learning experience I think.

MB

[Brian Conn]

There hasn't been any racing on Sedalias dirt 1 mile for about 40 yrs due in part to the insanely fast speeds that where occurring.  There is still racing on the 1/2 mile dirt track that is on the infield of the old 1 mile.  I was at the State Fair Grounds where these tracks are located a year or so ago....you can still see where the 1 mile was at as it is used as an access road now days.
 
  I remember seeing my first automatic in a dirt late model at the Fall race at the old fairgrounds track here in Topeka in 1979.  I was wondering thru the pits with a buddy looking the cars over before the races and noticed an automatic floor shifter in one of the cars....reworked G.M Powerglide tranny....as I recall it was an Iowa car, unknown driver.  As more and more automatics started showing up in the late models around here , I noticed that with the automatics , it seemed that the driver could take the car deeper into the turns than with a manual.

       ................... I am more familiar with the Muncie in drag racing applications. We all knew that the Muncie was the strongest and that there were a lot of gear sets available.
MB

I presume that the Ford guys that switched over to the Muncie from the Toploader did so for those reasons alone if nothing else.....   

[Maineboy]

Brian,

       This has turned into a great conversation.  The topic of using automatic transmissions in circle track cars is a very interesting topic that I would like very much to know more about. We had a very good opponent, on a third mile dirt track, who ran the automatic trans in a 1955 Oldsmobile. He was a consistent winner.

       I know that the Powerglides, Powerflites, Fordomatics and others were all 2 spd trannies. As a  kid I worked on some of these in the local garage. I learned just enough to be dangerous I guess. I did rebuild several 3 spd Torqueflites in Chrysler cars and am fairly familiar with them. A good friend runs a transmission shop in our little town. He told me the enemy of them is heat and good factory transmissions have a lifetime of about 150,000 miles, after than expect trouble at any time.

       So I have wondered about how these may have worked when used in circle track racecars. They can certainly modified to shift faster than a stick shift, and to stand whatever amount of power you wish to put them behind.

       I would like to hear accounts of racers that used these and what were the advantages/disadvantages.

MB

[Volzfan59]

I'm no automatic transmission expert for sure but there was a dirt late model that raced at Atomic Speedway just, just outside of Knoxville TN that ran a power glide. This would have been in the early to mid 80's. Not sure if he ever won, but he was a consistent top 10 car. Here's the part that I don't understand, maybe Brian will know, the car owner told me that there was no torque converter? There was a good sized brass hydraulic valve mounted to the bottom door bar. The driver would put the car in gear and open the valve at a moderate speed, almost like releasing the clutch pedel. The car would start rolling and he was off. I'm sure that I probably didn't completely answer your question, but I hope that I helped a little.

[Brian Conn]

.....................Here's the part that I don't understand, maybe Brian will know, the car owner told me that there was no torque converter? There was a good sized brass hydraulic valve mounted to the bottom door bar. The driver would put the car in gear and open the valve at a moderate speed, almost like releasing the clutch pedel. The car would start rolling and he was off............

  This is from the 1982 Midwest Race Engineering (MRE) catalog....

  That is correct, there was no torque converter.  The trans fluid was pumped with a beefed up racing version of the transmission pump.....kind of hard to see, but some of those parts are in the bags in the above picture.  The hydraulic valve is in the upper Right hand corner of the bag. 
  A transmission cooler (small radiator) was a must when running a glide to due the modifications made to transmission.
  Think of opening the valve as running low on transmission fluid.  At some point the transmission does not engage due to the lack of fluid.  Add the correct amount of fluid and the transmission engages.  The valve was between the transmission pump and the inner parts of the transmission.  When the car was stopped but still running the driver had to put the transmission in neutral as it would stall out the engine if the valve was still open since there was only a pump and no torque converter. 

[Volzfan59]

Thank you for the explanation Brian. Just reading some of your stuff and through our PM's I felt like you would know.

[Maineboy]

        Just did a brief internet search while eating my lunch. Turned up all kinds of info on using the Powerglide transmission in circle track cars. This is a whole new world of info for me. I am basically familiar with auto trannies but not sure of what the advantages are in running one in a circle track race car. Weight may be one of them. Stuff I just read talked about leaving various parts out of the trans to save weight. Same goes for running without a torque convertor.

       Extremely interesting topic. I sure would like to know more about the reasoning behind using these transmissions instead of a 3 or 4 spd manual.

MB

[Brian Conn]

        Just did a brief internet search while eating my lunch. Turned up all kinds of info on using the Powerglide transmission in circle track cars. This is a whole new world of info for me. I am basically familiar with auto trannies but not sure of what the advantages are in running one in a circle track race car. Weight may be one of them. Stuff I just read talked about leaving various parts out of the trans to save weight. Same goes for running without a torque convertor.

       Extremely interesting topic. I sure would like to know more about the reasoning behind using these transmissions instead of a 3 or 4 spd manual.

MB

  Going back to the MRE catalog from 1982, the Powerglide trans kit was priced at $317.00 and what would have cost for a salvage yard glide and now your looking at just North of $400.00   As a side note , I dug out my copy of the rules for the Strictly Street Stock class at Topeka Raceway (1/4 mile banked dirt) from 1984.  As far as transmissions go, the only rules where the transmission must be in the stock position and must be a minimum of two forward and 1 reverse gear.  No 5 speeds,couplers or dog clutches   There was a $350.00 engine claim...basically a long block.  So if one wanted to put a $400.00 plus Powerglide in his Street Stock in 1984 , he could...legally.  Back in the early 80's, $400.00 could have scored you 6 or 7 Muncies ready to go which looks better for the Muncie. Now for the otherside....
  The race prepped Powerglides could shift quicker, especially that all important shift from 1st to 2nd on a restart......imagine being in the 3rd row on a re-start with the other 4 cars ahead of you running manual transmissions.  At the drop of the Green, if you had a clear track, you could get a jump out ahead of at least 3 of them before setting up for turn 3.  With a Powerglide the driver could take the car deeper into the turn....imagine there is slop on the low groove and the middle groove is starting to fade and go away...the top groove is still decent and those that can run there are at an advantage.  As far as weight goes, with time and more aftermarket parts available for the glide, it got lighter.  The late 70's version weighed more simply by the fact that the stock internals were still being used where applicable.  About the time that the direct drive trannys started showing up(Brinn,Bert late 80's early 90's) the racing Powerglide where indeed noticeably lighter , but with all the trick stuff being sold by B&M , TCI, etc. etc. the prices made them right at or above the "NEW" direct drives which were designed for circle track racing verses the Powerglide that was adapted.  Eventually, the racing Powerglide cost more than the direct drives.  What kept the Powerglides in the racing picture was when rules stipulated no direct drives, but said nothing of running a torque converter or not....those with the deep pockets and plenty of $$$ still ran the racing version of the Powerglide.  As time marches on the price of the "original" Powerglide transmissions keeps going up as its been out of production since 1973...however, aftermarket, new Powerglides start @ $2000.00 ......for a cool 5 Grand you can get a Glide that's good for 2200 H.P  ...so that would be the Speedway Motors connection to all of this, you can still get a "Powerglide" from them but be ready to shell out about $2500.00 for a race ready version for your Street Stock or "Economy" Modified       

[Maineboy]

    All very interesting stuff. I have paid attention to the use of automatic transmissions in drag racing but not kept up with it in circle track stuff. Thanks Brian for all the neat info.  I have done a bit of  research and see a lot of talk about saving weight in the transmission by using an aluminum case and maybe only low gear. I also read some about running the engine with no torque convertor so it turned up quicker when you got on the throttle. In my racing era I used to think that some of the bigger engines with their torque and horsepower at lower RPM's had some advantage as they got the power on the track quicker than our small bock chevy which had to reach a fairly high RPM to develop it's power. There were lots of engines raced at Indy that had more power than the 4 cyl "Offy" which was king there for 50 yrs. But it was always said that nothing came out of a turn faster than the Offy. It had it's power at lower RPM.

      Read a story about a guy in Alberta Canada who had a 70 something Dodge Dart with a Hemi in it and participated in Hot Rod Magazines "drag week" where they had to drive to 5 different cities for drag racing each day. So the car had to be streetable. He had a built up hemi with 2 turbos and electronic fuel management. Dynoed over 2000 HP! He could detune it to drive on the street then boost it up again for the track. He was using a GM TH 400 auto trans. I think it may have been reduced to just 2 gears as we see in circle track racing. I know it shifted at least once. The second day he blew the front clutch carrier as it split under power. One of his competitors using the same trans offered him a replacement and helped him repair it. This camaraderie used to exist in short track racing back in the day too. Sad that got lost.  Anyway the moral of this story is that someone makes a front clutch carrier out of aluminum that can stand that kind of power. I thought steel would be stronger but not aluminum. Racing both straight line and circle track have come a long ways since 1965.

      It is always a pleasure to see the ingenuity of racers in developing new ideas  and new parts. Been a great development field for the automotive world in general too.  Going faster always requires lots of engineering developments!

MB

[Brian Conn]

  Off to the body shop 
     
   
 


  I didn't quite like the way that the Right side tires/wheels sat too far inboard, so I took some artistic liberties

I ended up destroying the Right front spindle in an attempt to do an alignment with out the wheels and tires on...wont be doing that again....scratch built a new spindle.  As I have stated before, the Jo-Han body is proportionally off, which has lead to other issues where the roll cage was concerned.  In making the cage fit up properly, the body had to be shifted slightly to the Left which was o.k for the Left side tires...not so much for the Right side.  I corrected this by adding aprox. 3 mm. to the upper and lower control arms and Right side rear axle tube.

  I'm not quite sure about the offsetting (longer Right side control arms and offset rear axle) as it would pertain to a dirt late model from the mid 70's ...plausible maybe?? if someone knows more, I sure would like to hear about it.     

[Maineboy]

Brian,

       Great piece of work. Can't wait to see it painted. You must have a ton of hours in it to get to this stage.

MB

[Maineboy]

Brian,

      You are a man possessed with great patience. This project is so tedious that I would have had my hair ripped out by this time. Looking forward to more build posts and of course the finished product.

MB

[Brian Conn]

  ...Thank you Nathan....
   ...Reminds me of a quote from John Quincy Adams "Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish."

  Some inside baseball stuff...for whats its worth

  I had all intentions of having the car ready for a show Sept 17th in Leavenworth, Ks.  it now appears that won't be happening.....it will be done by Nov. for the Ad Astra model club show here in Topeka and I have full intentions on entering it and possibly the '55 Ford Custom Modified Street Stock from last year in the K.C Slammers show in Overland Park, Ks. next June.

  I have already done more to the '73 Gran Torino than the '55 Ford Custom as far scratch building and making changes to the Super Stocker kit chassis and Jo-Han Torino body.

  Last week I began the process of final priming and light sanding before laying down some color...discovered that the body sat anywhere from an 1/8" to a 16th" lower than what I wanted....which has led to re-sculpting the wheel wells now and also discovered that the rear window opening was too wide as compared to the AMT/ERTL '72 Torino Stock Car that was released a few years ago.
 
   Back to the hobby room for now......